Comments for Justin Cannon http://www.jmcannon.com The personal blog of Justin Cannon. Mon, 31 Oct 2011 21:39:46 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 Comment on Finding Occupy Wall Street’s Voice by George Leontiev http://www.jmcannon.com/2011/10/finding-occupy-wall-streets-voice/#comment-5 George Leontiev Mon, 31 Oct 2011 21:39:46 +0000 http://www.jmcannon.com/?p=98#comment-5 Great article in the New Yorker highlighting some off these points. http://www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/2011/11/07/111107taco_talk_hertzberg Great article in the New Yorker highlighting some off these points.

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/2011/11/07/111107taco_talk_hertzberg

]]> Comment on Finding Occupy Wall Street’s Voice by George Leontiev http://www.jmcannon.com/2011/10/finding-occupy-wall-streets-voice/#comment-4 George Leontiev Mon, 31 Oct 2011 20:40:05 +0000 http://www.jmcannon.com/?p=98#comment-4 You miss my previous point, that while activities such as drum circles and yoga and craft lessons have become a hallmark of the OWS movement, digging into the financial system and becoming educated on the actual issues on a level deeper than "this is wrong" have not. In fact, I would argue there is an unwillingness to work with the current system and understand that the world is a complex place and the current financial crisis is not just the result of a few greedy people stealing everyone else's money. I will also say that I have personally spent a week in a tent in cold pittsburgh weather with a group of friends I had just met at college and it was an extremely fun, rewarding experience. Unfortunately, despite our best camping out, we were unable to enact any real change in the financial system either. You miss my previous point, that while activities such as drum circles and yoga and craft lessons have become a hallmark of the OWS movement, digging into the financial system and becoming educated on the actual issues on a level deeper than “this is wrong” have not. In fact, I would argue there is an unwillingness to work with the current system and understand that the world is a complex place and the current financial crisis is not just the result of a few greedy people stealing everyone else’s money.

I will also say that I have personally spent a week in a tent in cold pittsburgh weather with a group of friends I had just met at college and it was an extremely fun, rewarding experience. Unfortunately, despite our best camping out, we were unable to enact any real change in the financial system either.

]]> Comment on Finding Occupy Wall Street’s Voice by Justin http://www.jmcannon.com/2011/10/finding-occupy-wall-streets-voice/#comment-3 Justin Mon, 31 Oct 2011 18:13:10 +0000 http://www.jmcannon.com/?p=98#comment-3 You paint the protesters with a pretty broad, unflattering stroke there and in doing so, seem to inadvertently agree with me. My point is that the majority need not be interested in understanding the detailed history of increasing corporate influence or comparative global tax rates. Those that are and can articulate themselves well (which necessarily comprise the minority) are the ones that need to be be hoisted onto the shoulders of the passionate masses. I don't think characterizing the protest as mostly community-interested bongo-drumming slacks is fair. Their willingness to spend weeks on end living in a tent in the park (in increasingly frigid weather) I think testifies to a real ideological drive. Just because they can't all debate their positions on CNN doesn't mean their frustration or passion for change is illegitimate. You paint the protesters with a pretty broad, unflattering stroke there and in doing so, seem to inadvertently agree with me. My point is that the majority need not be interested in understanding the detailed history of increasing corporate influence or comparative global tax rates. Those that are and can articulate themselves well (which necessarily comprise the minority) are the ones that need to be be hoisted onto the shoulders of the passionate masses.

I don’t think characterizing the protest as mostly community-interested bongo-drumming slacks is fair. Their willingness to spend weeks on end living in a tent in the park (in increasingly frigid weather) I think testifies to a real ideological drive. Just because they can’t all debate their positions on CNN doesn’t mean their frustration or passion for change is illegitimate.

]]> Comment on Finding Occupy Wall Street’s Voice by George Leontiev http://www.jmcannon.com/2011/10/finding-occupy-wall-streets-voice/#comment-2 George Leontiev Mon, 31 Oct 2011 16:30:19 +0000 http://www.jmcannon.com/?p=98#comment-2 Clear goals are important, but their absence is not the only thing that causes me to take OWS with a grain of salt. The main thing is that there seems to not even be a desire amongst protesters to clarify their goals, or even find out more about the system they want fixed. This protest has been going on for several weeks now, and while countless man-hours have been spent in drum circles and community yoga classes, it doesn't seem like very much effort has been put into studying the current financial system or any of the federal institutions that the protesters are so upset with. I also disagree with your statement that Joe Protester's inability to discuss the issues important to them. On the contrary, I've seen some very articulate people interviewed about some of the problems that you highlight here, so they are out there. And those who cannot articulate their ideas can easily talk to these people who are in their impromptu community and learn. They just choose not to, because most of them would rather just participate in community aspects of the OWS movement. I'll leave on a personal observation. When I'm in an argument with someone yelling at them and telling them they are wrong almost never convinces them of my viewpoint, however loud or impassioned I get. What I often do instead is I try to understand the person I am arguing with, convince them that I understand what their viewpoint is (The Brownian "So I think what you are trying to say is..."), and then highlight where I think they have overlooked something which might steer them closer to agreeing with me. It's discourse 101, and it usually works much better then showing up somewhere close to their workplace with signs. Clear goals are important, but their absence is not the only thing that causes me to take OWS with a grain of salt. The main thing is that there seems to not even be a desire amongst protesters to clarify their goals, or even find out more about the system they want fixed. This protest has been going on for several weeks now, and while countless man-hours have been spent in drum circles and community yoga classes, it doesn’t seem like very much effort has been put into studying the current financial system or any of the federal institutions that the protesters are so upset with. I also disagree with your statement that Joe Protester’s inability to discuss the issues important to them. On the contrary, I’ve seen some very articulate people interviewed about some of the problems that you highlight here, so they are out there. And those who cannot articulate their ideas can easily talk to these people who are in their impromptu community and learn. They just choose not to, because most of them would rather just participate in community aspects of the OWS movement.

I’ll leave on a personal observation. When I’m in an argument with someone yelling at them and telling them they are wrong almost never convinces them of my viewpoint, however loud or impassioned I get. What I often do instead is I try to understand the person I am arguing with, convince them that I understand what their viewpoint is (The Brownian “So I think what you are trying to say is…”), and then highlight where I think they have overlooked something which might steer them closer to agreeing with me. It’s discourse 101, and it usually works much better then showing up somewhere close to their workplace with signs.

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